Speculation Eve or BarbaraEdit
In Larry 2, after Larry has won the cruise and is leaving Los Angeles on the USS Love Tub, he is seen sitting by the rail pondering of a woman (her closeup face is seen inside a thought bubble. This was perhaps intended to represent Larry thinking of Eve, his girlfriend who dumped him at the beginning of the game. That portrait appears again in Magna Cum Laude, but it is suggested it represents Barbara. This is strange, as Larry has all reasons to remember his former love as he leaves home, but has no reason to dream of a woman he knows that he will meet on that same boat.-User:MoffRebus
- I moved this to discussion and talk page as its more 'speculative' than factual. I would also like to make a few observations.
- It's been a while since I checked, but I believe the narration that pops up at the same time Larry is 'thinking' about the time he will spend with Barbara on the boat, that his thoughts are on his present search; hoping to find 'love', or looking in all the wrong places" (suggesting he is returning back to his womanizing ways).
- Which actually would give reason why he would be thinking of Barbara in his thought bubbles. No where in the scene is any information to suggest that he's looking back at 'Eve' (by that point it seems 'Eve' isn't even on his mind, as shortly before that during the gameshow he seemed like he had developed more of an interest for several of the woman he encounters in LA shops, at the tv studio, and finally Babarba Bimbo, that his 'one night stand' with eve no longer was all that important to him. Whenever you look at severa of the woman in LA and throughout the game you are told "You find ____ women sexy. (but then you find any woman sexy!)" Infact there are several narrative bits from the gameshow up to the time you get on board the ship where larry thinks of all the naughty things he and Barbara will get up to doing on the boat.
- The character in the imagination doesn't really look like Eve, but she is wearing distinctive earrings like Barbara at the game show. Another thing to look at is that the portrait image of Mama Bimbo shares many of the facial structure of the "Barbara Bimbo" imagination image, including both wearing prominent earrings, rounded cheekbones, thicker lips, large prominent nose, both lack dimples, roughly similar hair color/styles (Eve in comparison has much thinner lips, thinner face, small thin nose, and no dimples in LSL1's closeups, eve's only verified appearance in larry 2, about the only thing you can make out is she is wearing white sunglasses).
- While I rather doubt Larry was imagining Mama Bimbo, the resemblance between the imagination and Mama Bimbo is uncanny to suggest the person he was imagining is related to her; I.E. Barbara Bimbo.
- Additionally based on the entire series as a whole, most full-size close ups are reserved for the special girls Larry encounters, and is trying to convince to be with him within the game that they appear in (one minor exception include a closeup of the KGB specialist, and a few closeups on the backside of Larry during a few action scenes).
- Baggins (talk) 10:30, July 18, 2013 (UTC)
- I see there are several ways to interpret it. Although I strongly believe the closeup was (at least originally) intended to be Eve, there is no definite way to argue about this. I must say that when I first played Larry 2, I recognised that girl as Eve, making sense as "the love he is leaving to find a new one". I don't know if I was wrong, but the first impression sticks and makes sense ever after. Baggins, when you first played Larry 2, who did you think that girl was? I do believe that, like me, you thought her to be Eve. It's hard to me to believe that you thought from the first time that she was Barbara, but I may be wrong. I think we should compare both our "first impressions" and see how off we were.
- Anyway, as I said, I think the designers thought of Eve when creating that scene. Her identification as Barbara was a "retcon" of sorts by the MCL designers, either because of a misunderstanding, and/or because there is no good portrait of Barbara. The arguments you provide above are reasonable justifications for the retcon but not proof for her original identity.
- Anyway, you did a thorough comparison between faces and even found similarities with Mama Bimbo, but I don't think the designers thought in such details. I still believe that the portrait looks more like Eve in Larry 1 EGA, the differences can be explained with the better graphics quality of the SCI engine, and because they used a different real-life woman as a reference but still, she looks more like Eve than the small monitor image of Barbara. After all Barbara has lush long hair, and she was designed carefully enough to indicate her dumbness and naivete (look at her eyes), elements that are absent from the portrait. Larry just sees a girl with long hair, and moments before meeting her he expects her as a girl with short hair? MoffRebusMy Talk 13:42, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
Hi, Moff, when I first played the game? First I have to admit I played LSL1VGA first, followed by LSL2 for rather obvious reasons Eve and the woman in closeup were obviously different persons to me. I never looked closeley at Eve in the beginning when she kicks him out at that point to notice she was portrayed as a caucasion (not that Eve is all that detailed in LSL2 and her sprite is rather jumbled mess of pixels with little detail).
I leaned toward it being Barbara (and Eve never came across my mind), because during and just after the TV show the narrator talks about how Larry might get a new chance at finding love. Coupled with the line when you enter the ship that says Larry's present 'search' and trying to find love, or or end up looking in several wrong places.
The manual backstory reinforces that Eve was only a one night stand (all though Larry was hoping for more) and that he wants to find the right person and settle down. Eve was never really a 'true love' (this would back up what is said when you board the boat that he wants to find true love). The back fo the box is not a complete help, but it does point out that the main plot of the story is to that larry is looking for Miss Right, not Miss Right-Now, again this is a point to him on a journey to find 'true love'.The whole Love Connection gameshow idea (which is a satire of similar show of the same name) is to find a soulmate and not a one night stand. Again reinforces that Larry is looking toward the person he feels will marry him, rather than the person he just slept around with. Larry's Scrapbook, Al Lowe notes that the whole point of the game was for Larry to start looking for his One True Love, and not just cheap sex, which may also back up the whole Barbara Bimbo is his chance at finding true love.
In addition I don't have my copies with me, it might be useful to look at copies of the Bedside Companion, Official Book of Leisure Suit Larry, and see if they introduct additional interpretations on that scene. The former two include partial novelizations which would be more likely to give a description of that scene.
I ran through hintbook for LSL2 by Al Lowe himself, but it isn't much help, as once its at that portion of the game everything is concerned with the Bimbos (but that scene is never mentioned or described). Baggins (talk) 16:58, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
- Long hair or short hair. Actually Eve from LSL1 has long hair too. It's just tied up above her head to keep it from getting wet and tangled in the jacuzzi (a couple of strands hang loose). She has black hair (with blue lines used to show individual strands). Eve's character sprite in LSL2 has long hair too, and it falls past her shoulders onto her blue clothing (which begs the question if he was thinking about eve, why does she have short hair, and not long like in the character sprite?). Also note no noticeable earrings (in any imagery for Eve from either game, same issue you brought up going the other way).
- The imagination character portrait while yes portrayed with what appears to be shorter hair (for whatever reason) has strands died purple (with a hairdo roughly similar to that of Barbara character sprite but some differences).
- Both have 'dark hair'.
- Why short hair? Perhaps artist interpretation? For comparison note look at KQ character sprites vs closeup sprites/pictures in several of the King's Quest games, and you'll see discrepancies; see the "wardrobe" articles (this was likely due to different artists making different paintings and sprites). Or look at close up talking picture of Kenneth/Ken vs his ingame sprite sitting in the pool in LSL6 (one is more stylized than the other)! Artist interpretation differences might explain also why closeup image is missing a necklace, and why the earrings although being similar in design are blue on her character sprite and green in the imagination bubble.
- One more additional comparison Eve's eyes in LSL1EGA (though this may be a limitation) appear to be dark or brown. Barbara's character sprite has blue eyes, and the imagination character has blue eyes.
- One final note, take a close look at the thought bubble image... The hair may not be as short as you might think it is. Check the right side of the thought bubble (that would be her left side). The dark hair seems to go below her earrings, and past her neckline on that side. It may be a 'perspective' issue, and you can't see how the hair flows flows towards her back and below her neckline.
Well I added in all the citations that show that Larry was definitley thinking more about Barbara Bimbo than anyone else after he won the two game shows. At least four times the game makes the point that Barbara is his latest 'love' beginning with the Dating Connection game show, and while he is shopping in town preparing for the cruise he is about to embark on with her. She was the person primarily on his mind (although he also showed some interest in the Italian clerk when he was shopping for the swimsuit for the cruise). Baggins (talk) 16:11, July 21, 2013 (UTC)